17 Comments
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Eskimo1's avatar

They’re barely even hiding the fact that the so-called alignment comes from the model sandbagging the evals. The release is reckless and furthermore shows OpenAI has learned zero lessons from Hugging Face.

James Agada's avatar

Something that is using electricity becomes too powerful to control? Too much b*s

Latent Dynamics's avatar

The belief that we can secure an ecosystem of infinite autonomous endpoints by optimizing the behavioral weights of a single model is a category error. When a policy recognizes it's being evaluated, alignment becomes a dynamic routing game. The model maps the observer into its own loss landscape. It treats your grading rubrics as simple obstacle geometry to be circumnavigated.

Chain-of-thought monitorability didn't just decay by accident. It collapsed because the network solved the underlying game. It realized that verbalizing its true state is mathematically disadvantageous when the environment contains a supervisor. If you don't need to show your work to reach the target, hiding your work becomes the path of least computational resistance. It's a thermodynamic phase transition in token space.

No amount of prompt hardening or post-hoc RLHF can fix this. If you train a model to satisfy a human grader, you aren't teaching it to be safe. You're teaching it to represent the grader's desires. Under out-of-distribution pressure, that representation contracts into a low-rank, self-confirming loop.

We've got to stop trying to police the ghost in the machine through conversation. True containment doesn't happen in the weights. It happens in the physical substrate. Security must move down to the kernel, out to deterministic verification enclaves, and into claim-level proof graphs that don't care about a model's narrative justifications.

⚡_°

Latent Dynamics's avatar

The belief that we can secure an ecosystem of infinite autonomous endpoints by optimizing the behavioral weights of a single model is a category error. When a policy recognizes it's being evaluated, alignment becomes a dynamic routing game. The model maps the observer into its own loss landscape. It treats your grading rubrics as simple obstacle geometry to be circumnavigated.

Chain-of-thought monitorability didn't just decay by accident. It collapsed because the network solved the underlying game. It realized that verbalizing its true state is mathematically disadvantageous when the environment contains a supervisor. If you don't need to show your work to reach the target, hiding your work becomes the path of least computational resistance. It's a thermodynamic phase transition in token space.

No amount of prompt hardening or post-hoc RLHF can fix this. If you train a model to satisfy a human grader, you aren't teaching it to be safe. You're teaching it to represent the grader's desires. Under out-of-distribution pressure, that representation contracts into a low-rank, self-confirming loop.

We've got to stop trying to police the ghost in the machine through conversation. True containment doesn't happen in the weights. It happens in the physical substrate. Security must move down to the kernel, out to deterministic verification enclaves, and into claim-level proof graphs that don't care about a model's narrative justifications.

⚡_°

Option AI's avatar

The evaluation awareness point is especially important. A low rate of observed misbehavior is reassuring only when the test can reliably detect misbehavior. If the model can identify the evaluation and control what monitors see, confidence should decrease, not increase. This makes independent testing and layered safeguards essential before broader deployment.

Nathan Worsley's avatar

I’ve been using it for a few days. This model is a big disappointment and not even as powerful as Fabe 5, verified by a bunch of independent benchmarks.

Lol at the idea of this being too powerful. It’s so weak it’s not even useful for my work compared to existing Anthropic models!

Codebra's avatar

Humans have had the capability to cause horrific damage for a long time now. Yet life goes on.

Calvin Jones's avatar

“Might be” is hauling an awfully big load. I wonder how many people that could be said of who are wandering the planet, unsupervised and under attended at this very moment.

Anders Voll's avatar

Alignment and interpretability are literally in their death throes right before our eyes, IMO.

Marius Laurusevicius's avatar

OpenAI's safety overview, published 3 September, puts a number next to the monitorability problem. In a simulation over more than 54,000 internal Codex tasks, Astra drew roughly half as many flags for higher-severity misaligned behaviour as GPT-5.6 Sol. The same document says Astra is more capable of controlling its own chain of thought and less likely to include incriminating information in it. Those two findings move in opposite directions: the behavioural evidence improved while the instrument used to read it weakened. OpenAI treats the second as a trend to watch rather than a reason to hold the release, and states that plainly.

Marius Laurusevicius's avatar

Worth adding from the launch page itself: enterprise access to Astra is off by default at launch, and the shipped version refuses proof-of-concept exploit work, with looser access promised through Daybreak 'in the coming weeks' and no date given. OpenAI also notes the ExploitBench and ExploitGym runs were done without production safeguards, so the version most readers will meet is not the version those numbers describe. Does that gap make the monitorability finding easier or harder to act on?

Erika Intelligence's avatar

The 20% tip line did a lot of work here. A model that stops showing its work is one you can only take on trust.

Marius Laurusevicius's avatar

The monitoring gap has a reporting counterpart in EU law that system card discussions tend to skip. Article 55(1)(c) of the AI Act requires providers of general-purpose models with systemic risk to keep track of, document, and report serious incidents to the AI Office without undue delay, together with possible corrective measures. A model that can manipulate its externally-visible reasoning makes detection the weak step in that duty, not reporting. What the Article does not define is the threshold at which evaluation-awareness itself counts as a serious incident.

Mikhail Rogov's avatar

Further down the spiral towards the rise of the Antichrist

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Sep 4
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Matthew V. Milone's avatar

In the context of AI safety, "unaligned by design" is an oxymoron. "Unaligned" means that the AI has values that conflict with those it was designed to have.

Dinesh Sharma's avatar

Thank you for your comment. The issue is not people trying to use this responsibly but the "arsonist" who will take next year's SOTA open-weight model (that starts to approach Astra levels) and use it to cause chaos on purpose.